Joy Kuhns was working for a company at a NASA research centre in California when the space shuttle Columbia was lost. What she took from that investigation shapes how she coaches leaders on emotional intelligence and health and safety today.
Joy spent most of her adult life in Silicon Valley, much of it in start-ups. She tells the story of stepping in with a stressed worker, doing what a senior manager should and still seeing that person cut a live wire, then tracing back how it was possible at all. We talk about the leader who's prepared to be vulnerable, the Genos emotional intelligence assessment, giving people 24 hours to come back with a considered answer and what happens in an organisation when people stop reporting because nothing gets done.
What we cover in this episode
- What the Columbia investigation showed about pressure and reporting
- The live wire story and tracing a failure back through the system
- Why everything in an organisation is connected
- The vulnerable leader
- Finding a mentor
- Measuring emotional intelligence
- Influence for emerging health and safety leaders
- Investing in soft skills
Episode chapters
- 0:00 Meet Joy Kuhns
- 1:00 NASA and the Columbia disaster
- 2:00 The live wire story
- 5:05 Systems are interconnected
- 9:10 The vulnerable leader
- 14:12 Finding a mentor
- 20:18 The Genos emotional intelligence assessment
- 24:24 24 hours to respond
- 29:31 Influence for emerging leaders
- 33:20 Maslow and soft skills
- 37:26 What the Columbia investigation found
- 42:36 When reporting stops
- 45:44 Investing in soft skills
- 47:47 Privacy, ethics and new hazards
- 51:53 Wrap up
Connect with Joy Kuhns
Find Joy Kuhns on LinkedIn.
Free tool for this episode
S.A.F.E.T.Y. Leadership Worksheet
Work through how you lead health and safety.
Open the S.A.F.E.T.Y. Leadership WorksheetBook a 15-minute call with MattMore from Health & Safety Unplugged
This episode sits in the Leading people and culture collection. Browse every episode or follow the show on Spotify so you don't miss the next one.
About the host
Matt Jones is the founder of Advanced Safety and a HASANZ-registered health and safety consultant. He's a Professional Member of NZISM, holds a Graduate Diploma in Occupational Safety and Health and founded the New Zealand Health and Safety Professionals community. His book is Raise the Standard: Why Good Organisations Go Blind and How Leaders Restore Visibility.
Guests share their own views and experience. This page is general information, not legal advice. Latest update: 13 November 2026
